Mast step truss, inevitably:(

mikkel holm
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by mikkel holm » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:37 pm

thanks for the replies! i think that the mast truss is orginal and there is some foam inside but it dosent go all the way out to the bilge but the truss is not visible. i did grinde a little white som sandpaper on the front of the keel and suddenly a airpocket came visble!! i did crack some pices of the gelcoat lose whit my mini screwdriver. i think it looks like when the boat got put togetherthe 2 parts dident match up on that spot soo thay just put some gelcoat in the crack? i dont looks like the keel is cracked more than that i will try to take some better pictures next time i am down there :)
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MarkRyan1981
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by MarkRyan1981 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:01 am

Hopefully that's some good news then, its worth grinding back the gel coat to find good grp and make sure the crack doesn't extend further in, if then all is good, seal it all up with West System and move on :)

I'm always concerned when the tops of these truss's have foam as opposed to hard resin. It can hide a multitude of sins and doesn't actually stop moisture getting to the truss (which I can only imagine whoever put the foam in there hoped) and of course offers no structure strength. How hard/soft is the foam? Does it look closed cell or is it a bit soggy? Is that a hole in the mini bulkhead aft of the truss?

I'm sure its all fine, its good you are being prudent and making sure its all good though. My keel crack write up is here: http://www.albinballad.co.uk/how-tos/fi ... your-keel/

patentnick
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by patentnick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:21 am

Hi there guys:

I'm Nicholas, owner of "Moments of Clarity" hull No. 334. I used to be very active on the Ballad Exchange but have been mute over the past couple of years. I've been following Mark's articles in PBO and the Mast step truss thread over here. It's an issue that I want to address and did some investigating with an endoscope yesterday. I couldn't find any rust around the shoe (the loose particles that I managed to sweep were not metallic) but there has been a small trail of rust down the small bulkhead aft of the truss.

However, since I will be replacing the standing rigging this season, I want to deal with this issue. Problem is that it's a bureaucratic nightmare to take the mast down in my marina (this being Greece after all) so whatever I do will be with the mast standing. Hence I found the thought that was expressed a few years back--of pouring epoxy resin and filling completely the void under the mast step--quite attractive, if a bit ham-fisted. I've used very low viscosity epoxy resin (the kind used to repair cement columns in earthquake-damaged support columns) with great success in the past, particularly to fix some deck delamination. So I was thinking of drilling holes around the mast step, temporary closing off the upper part of the small aft bulkhead and injecting resin to completely saturate the area. My assumption is that the mast will be sitting an a "bedrock of resin" and the truss will be almost inconsequential.

Am I nuts? And, please, forgive me, I'm not usually such a brute when it comes to boat restoration. As older members of the Ballad Exchange will attest, I've done some beautiful work on "Moments of Clarity" :D.
Nicholas Koligiannis
Moments of Clarity
Hull No. 334

jocke76
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:37 pm
Location: Västerås, Sweden

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by jocke76 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:30 am

Hi

Interesting approach Nicholas =)
I shouldn't do it unless I were pretty sure that the mast trust isn't in such a bad shape that we have seen on some pictures.

A thought:
Is there any evidence that "all" Ballads has the same mast trust solution?
I mean, can it be that Ballads with hull number between X and Y are more sensitive?
Albin Ballad 211, Västerås Sweden

patentnick
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by patentnick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:34 am

Well, I can't tell what Albin had done over the years regarding the mast step. A Swedish friend's 1976 Ballad has had no issues whatsoever. It has also been argued that in warmer climates, where there's very little humidity--and when things get wet they dry off very quickly--problems of that nature aren't pronounced. One thing I've noticed is that the mast step on my boat is more substantial than on other Ballads (see photo). I've also plugged the draining hole in the forward bilge that would allow water to drain into the main bilge. Now if there's any water in the forward bilge, I drain it separately, normally by using the toilet pump with a section of hose T'd off the inlet hose. At any rate, I make sure that all the bilges are bone dry and it's the first thing I attend to after hard sailing. I'm not sure if the previous 4-5 owners were that diligent though.
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Nicholas Koligiannis
Moments of Clarity
Hull No. 334

MarkRyan1981
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:47 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by MarkRyan1981 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:46 am

Interesting, completely different mast foot to mine - I wonder if your mast has been replaced in the past? Even the sole looks different around it, I wonder if someone has taken a look previous to you at the truss?

patentnick
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by patentnick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:05 pm

Hi Mark:

Great to touch base again. I don't know if anybody has taken a look at the truss. The boat has been sailed hard in the past (I've met two of the previous owners) but has had no damage from leaks around the chainplates or anywhere else. When I had gutted the boat during the electrical/plumbing renovation I hadn't found any damage. Of course, there will always be ways to strengthen a boat (a Swedish friend of mine, Mats Wik, owner of Taifun, has laminated stringers). I laminated half bulkheads when I converted the starboard side of the saloon to a dinette, and also laminated the opposite side that runs along the port saloon berth. I'm also a conservative sailor and don't push the boat very hard, my preferred sailplan being a Genoa 3 on the furler, a mainsail with 3 reefs--two of which are used quite often--and a Genoa 4 on an inner forestay.

At any rate, I've been wondering whether looking into the truss is worthwhile at this point, since I will be renewing the standing rigging. And, to be honest, I was alarmed by your excellent article in PBO.
Nicholas Koligiannis
Moments of Clarity
Hull No. 334

jocke76
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:37 pm
Location: Västerås, Sweden

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by jocke76 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:32 am

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Hi again

I've been investiggating the mast step a little further while fixing other things. Earlier I posted pictures about the suspicilly new bolts in the frontmost compartment and the stripped paint. Today I removed the small "plank" (?) just in front of the mast step.

My judgement is that something must have been done.. I saw evidence of paint being removed here too but it didn't look as shiny new as from the compartment.

I also managed to take a photo in the small gap in the bildge and something has been covered around the mast step.

What do you think?
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Albin Ballad 211, Västerås Sweden

patentnick
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by patentnick » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:07 pm

Hi guys and Happy New Year:

With the mast down in order to change the rigging, I thought it'd be a great time to look into the mast truss issue further. My mast is made by Proctor and the base is far more substantial than the ones I've seen posted on the site. In fact, it's a base that Moodys have been using on most of their older, mid-range boats. The base came off relatively easily, using a borrowed high-torque driver. Then using a Fein tool, I cut a small section of the floor, which gave me access to the small bulkhead. I used the same tool--plus an electric file--to get rid of the bulkhead completely, and grind the hull sides and the aft side of the resin pour back to glass. Although the bulkhead had rotted almost completely, there was no sign of rust. Also, as seen in a couple of photos I'd taken earlier with an endoscope, there was absolutely no rust on top of the resin pour surrounding the metal mast step. All I managed to sweep from that space was dirt and dust. Plus, the resin pour appears to be firmly attached to the hull. But there's this crack that has me a bit worried...

Any comments, thoughts, or advice are most welcome.
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Nicholas Koligiannis
Moments of Clarity
Hull No. 334

patentnick
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Mast step truss, inevitably:(

Post by patentnick » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Well, this morning I decided to investigate that crack. I wanted to reach all the way to the back of the truss, figuring that if there was any corrosion it would show on the trailing edge. Since the crack moved to the right, I drilled holes on the left side in order to form a V and then dig the whole thing out with a chisel. It came off relatively easily. Good news: there's absolutely no visible corrosion on the edge. There's no bad news really, except that there's a visible gap between the truss and the resin pour, on either side, which may be due to the polyester shrinking slightly as it cured. I'm tempted to inject epoxy resin in the gap, let it cure and then fill the large gap with thickened epoxy, glass in a new bulkhead and call it a day.

Any ideas?

Nicholas
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Nicholas Koligiannis
Moments of Clarity
Hull No. 334

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