Rudder axial load

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tedmroyer
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:32 pm

Rudder axial load

Post by tedmroyer » Sun May 20, 2018 3:05 am

I am new to the exchange but with many dumb questions. Does anyone know if the rudder axial load is supposed to be supported at the top rudder post bearing or down at the bottom tang bearing (bottom of the skeg)?

Thank you all for the support.
Ted Royer
hull# 1054
tedmroyer@yahoo.com
+1-719-822-7538

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prjacobs
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Re: Rudder axial load

Post by prjacobs » Tue May 22, 2018 4:21 am

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
The only 'dumb' question is the one that goes unasked :lol:
The rudder shaft is held by three bushings:
One at the top, one at the bottom of the tube passing through the hull, and one at the bottom, in a 'shoe' that is held to the tip of the skeg by three through-bolts. The upper and lower bushings have a collar to prevent them from slipping out. The middle one is a press fit into the tube, with no collar. This all looked original to me on my hull No.1085.

The three bushings did not align perfectly. IIRC, the rudder shaft was about 3/8" (10 mm) offset by the time it got to the top bushing. No problem, as there is enough length between the middle and top bushings to allow this much deflection in the shaft without causing binding at the tiller.

The pictures below are of my boat during restoration, so some are a bit ugly!
My original bushings were made of Phenolic and were still in fair shape, but as I have a small lathe I made new ones from Delrin.
Hope this helps,
Peter.
Attachments
bushings.jpg
bushings.jpg (48.24 KiB) Viewed 4049 times
Rudder.jpg
Rudder.jpg (58.42 KiB) Viewed 4049 times
Skeg Tip.rotated.jpg
Skeg Tip.rotated.jpg (78.48 KiB) Viewed 4049 times
Hull.rotated.jpg
Hull.rotated.jpg (79.56 KiB) Viewed 4049 times
Tiller Head.jpg
Tiller Head.jpg (54.8 KiB) Viewed 4049 times

tedmroyer
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Rudder axial load

Post by tedmroyer » Tue May 29, 2018 4:15 pm

Peter. Thank you. This is excellent information. I have a about a 9/16th" gap (14mm) between the top of the rudder to the skeg, (see attached). In the pictures you shared it looks like you have significantly less. Can you tell me what I should shoot for as far as a gap and where I should add shim material?
Attachments
IMG_0921.JPG
IMG_0921.JPG (98.14 KiB) Viewed 4028 times
Ted Royer
hull# 1054
tedmroyer@yahoo.com
+1-719-822-7538

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prjacobs
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Re: Rudder axial load

Post by prjacobs » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Hi Ted,
I'm trying to relate the picture you posted to the one I posted. :?: It appears to be a whole different set-up. Could you post a picture of the whole stern showing rudder and skeg, top to bottom?
Thanks!

Edit: Ah, I see ... the picture is sideways ... silly me!
Can you lift the rudder by hand to reduce the gap? Is there vertical play in it? The bottom bushing should be holding it in place on the "shoulder" of the bushing (see my bushing photos). I suspect the top of the bottom bushing has worn away allowing the rudder to drop. A replacement bushing may be the answer. Certainly give the bottom bracket that holds the bushing a close inspection.
Hope this helps.

tedmroyer
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Rudder axial load

Post by tedmroyer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Peter,

Perfect. That is what I was looking for. Yes sir I can lift it completely up to remove the gap. I pulled the rudder yesterday and drained the rest of the water from it and will start sealing up both the skeg & rudder. The shoulder of the bottom bushing is worn completely away and looks like there are remains of a Teflon washer that was added at some point to add some support. The rudder looks like it has been hanging from the top bushing at the tiller for a long time. The bottom bracket mounting holes were wallowed out so I am filling and re-drilling them.

I would like to replace all of the bushings while I am in there. Do you know of some enterprising person who can supply replacements say in a material such as Delrin? That person could likely charge anything he wanted since he likely has a corner on the market and has a significantly motivated customer who understands the labor intensity and value of custom machining.

Thanks again for everything.
Ted Royer
hull# 1054
tedmroyer@yahoo.com
+1-719-822-7538

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prjacobs
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Re: Rudder axial load

Post by prjacobs » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:41 pm

Ted,
I get the hint, but would only do something like that if I had the rudder etc. on hand here to make sure of a perfect fit. I'm pretty sure these bushings are available ... somewhere. You might want to contact Vega Marin and see if they have any, or know where to get them. This is another possible source to check with.
It looks like you've got to the bottom of the problem and are doing all the right things!

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prjacobs
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Re: Rudder axial load

Post by prjacobs » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:25 pm

Ted, another thought: I could send you the ones I removed from #1085. They were still good (but not new, see pictures earlier in this thread).

tedmroyer
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Re: Rudder axial load

Post by tedmroyer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:23 pm

Peter,
Hey thanks for the link to Vega Marin. They did have a bushing set in stock and I ordered them.
Ted Royer
hull# 1054
tedmroyer@yahoo.com
+1-719-822-7538

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