Can anyone advise if the casting from the manifold to the flexible hose (which has the sea water inlet elbow screwed to it) is considered a "service part" on the Vovlo MD7 (ie. is renewed periodically)?
At the end of last season, the engine functioned fine: at the beginning of this I noticed fractures in this component, from which sea water leaked while the engine was running.
The component is almost toatally Iron Oxide (rust) now; has no almost no metallic integrity to speak of and is virtually closed with coke and rust.
However, this one seems unlikely to be an original fitting: it looks as though it's been replaced before, from visible clues.
I wondered how long they lasted (I've had the boat seven seasons).
What is the budget for a replacement?
Although the operating conditions could not be more adverse (exposed intermittently to sea water and hot gases with associated wide temprature variations), similar conditions obtain as regards the rest of the engine. How long before the cylinder walls collapse in a pile of rusty fragments?
Get Started!  | Our Manifold was rusty just like yours, except it got a hole because I poked it with a screwdriver to test it. I bought a new original Volvo manifold for around 600 Danish kr. (120 US $ - 80 â¬. - 700 Swedish Kroner). I was told to expect a renewal every 7 years or so. The rest of the enginge was not at all in the same poor condition. And still runs fine after 30 years. Only it is a weak starter in the wintertime. So everything is normal with your manifold, and it is time to renew it. Jesper. |
 | I've had to replace the exhaust riser in Alte Liebe at least twice. The final replacement (about 10 years ago) was made by a local boat mechanic--see attached jpeg. It is made of galvanized pipe and seems to work well. And cost much less that the gold plated price I was offered.
BTW--Volvo recommends replacement of the exhaust manifold every 5 years. Northern California price= $1050. In fact, the Volvo folks recommended that when the engine had problems, it would probably be better to buy a new engine rather than fixing (again) the old MD7A which I did. Jerry Martin Alte Liebe #1266Attachment: Exhaust.jpg |
 |
Yes it is, or at
least was an available Volvo part when I replaced the manifold on my Volvo MD6A,
I thiink I had to do it twice in 15 years- cost considerable I should think £60
to £80 now for the part.Trouble is it is working in a hostile environment and I
gather is not just a problem with Volvos. I now have Yanmar 2YM15
which is 2 years old now- may well have problems in 5-6 years although I
think the MD6A with direct cooling ran very hot which would exacerbate the
problem- ie nearly boiling salt water impinging on cast
iron.
Mark
Bennett
PS CIAO is now on
her new permanent mooring in Vannes
S.Brittany. |
 | Here's some pictures of the manifold I just built to test run our engine (It was laid up for at least 3 years before we bought our Ballad last fall). It's made of 1 1/2" pipe. I welded all the threaded fittings and the 3/8"water tube myself which saved on cost. All together it cost me about $30 in fittings. It works well, although this is only made of black iron fittings and won't last as long as the Penta manifold - but I can make at least hundred of them for the cost for the Volvo manifold. I "cleaned up" our Penta this winter in our garage. I replaced the water pump impeller, water piping o-ring seals, exhaust manifold gaskets, front crank seal and the oil pan gaskets. It cost about $300 in parts - Volvo parts are very expensive. The engine started and runs so well that I have to give it a try in the boat instead of replacing it with a Beta. It does smoke oil for a while when just started (it had signs of oil in the forward cylinder while the exhaust manifold was off). I'm hoping that this will clear up some after we start running the engine under a load. Trent Attachment: MD7A Exhaust.JPG |
 | A raw water cooled engine should have a thermostat that keeps it running at a lower temperture than a fresh water cooled engine. This is to prevent salts from percipitating out of the sea water. It is not an optimal running temperture for a diesel but it is better than plugging up your engine block with minerals. It is common to find the wrong thermostat being used in raw water cooled engines. I also have an exhaust elbow made of welded up galvanized pipe fittings. It works fine. The only problem is coordinating the size of the fittings with the water lift muffler so that the connecting hose will fit equaly well at both ends. Tony Allport Pleiades #191 |
 | Last year, an acquaintance of mine bought an Albin Singoalla which had a 3-way valve in the engine's saltwater intake hose. This permitted a second hose to run to a freshwater tank. Just before stopping the engine, the owner would turn the valve to the freshwater supply which, effectively, helped to flush the remaining saltwater through the engine. Although the new owner has re-engined the boat, he kept this arrangement as he thought it was pretty smart. It is quite similar to what owners of outboard engines do after each outing. Even if one doesn't want to draw water from the fresh water tank, a hose dipped into a bucket full of fresh water would serve the purpose. Considering the prices of new elbows and heat exchangers, maybe it's not a bad idea. Any thoughts or comments? Nicholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
 |
Very good!
In sterling I had thought the part would cost twice the prices that have been circulated, so like trentmoraitis, I bought bits and made one up. Not a good choice: the bits cost the equivalent of some of the prices I have seen attributed to the original equipment, and there is a perplexing water leak....
Otherwise I have got to say I prefered the shape of my one - a better "lead" to the water trap/muffler.
trentmoraitis' engine's paint job looks great, better than mine (after a re-build three seasons ago, but watch out for that oil burning mine had no oil control ring left they were entirely smooth!
One piece of advice that has come my way is to divert the engine breather (from the rocker box cover) into a recepticle nand plug the orfice in the air filter. The reason is there is a chance of diesel seeping past the seal on the CAV injector pump, which is then sucked back in the air intake, back into the engine, with disaterous consequences. Everyone out there should be fitting those little slim-line plastic bottles down in the sump somewhere to catch that residue.......
Feedback welcomed.
From: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
To: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: Engine exhaust
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:54:34 -0700
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Engine exhaust
Reply
|
|
| From: trentmoraitis |
Here's some pictures of the manifold I just built to test run our engine (It was laid up for at least 3 years before we bought our Ballad last fall). It's made of 1 1/2" pipe. I welded all the threaded fittings and the 3/8"water tube myself which saved on cost. All together it cost me about $30 in fittings. It works well, although this is only made of black iron fittings and won't last as long as the Penta manifold - but I can make at least hundred of them for the cost for the Volvo manifold.
I "cleaned up" our Penta this winter in our garage. I replaced the water pump impeller, water piping o-ring seals, exhaust manifold gaskets, front crank seal and the oil pan gaskets. It cost about $300 in parts - Volvo parts are very expensive. The engine started and runs so well that I have to give it a try in the boat instead of replacing it with a Beta. It does smoke oil for a while when just started (it had signs of oil in the forward cylinder while the exhaust manifold was off). I'm hoping that this will clear up some after we start running the engine under a load.
Trent | |
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 | I would be careful mucking around with the exhaust configuration as there is potential for water between the water lock and the engine to slosh about under sail and enter the motor. Apparently the original Ballad configuration was less than optimal and you certainly would not want to make it any worse. Here is a very good article by the other John Cotton about this problem |
| Thanks for the info about the engine breather. I would also like to pass along some info about my MD7 cooling water system. After I removed our Penta from the boat and got it home, I test ran the engine in my yard to make sure it was usable prior to spending any money and doing any rebuild work on the engine. I ran the engine without any exhaust hooked up to the engine manifold, connecting the cooling water outlet hose and letting it pump water on the ground. The volume of water that the engine was pumping was not very good. I assumed that the water pump was worn out. The problem was much different - The majority of the water pump discharge tube and also the thermostat housing bypass port were severely plugged with rust and dirt which was restricting water flow. I also found a 1/4" water port in the block completely plugged when I removed the water cooled exhaust manifold. Since I have a very limited history for my Ballad, I can't say how long this took to occur or if it was caused from the engine sitting unused for several years. The engine did have a good quality water strainer installed. I completely cleaned the water system and the water discharge volume is at least double or triple what it was before. I think that anyone that thinks their Penta engine isn't discharging the proper amount of water out of the exhaust might want to check into this. I'm glad I found this before I reinstalled the engine and possibly damaged it. If you were to disconnect the water outlet hose and direct it into a bucket and briefly run the engine - a good measure of water discharge volume could be checked. If you are concerned about your water cooled exhaust for this test, you could hook up a water hose from the dock to supply water during the check. Trent |
|
Thanks: topical to water flow I installed a VP water strainer according to instuctions: this severely diminished the water flow, which previously had full hydrostatic pressure direct from the below W/L inlet.
The engine i/l is below W/L level itself.
I cleaned out the exhaust manifld and cylinder water galleries as part of the engine refurbishment I did.
From: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
To: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: Engine exhaust
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:37:48 -0700
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Engine exhaust
Reply
|
|
| From: trentmoraitis |
Thanks for the info about the engine breather.
I would also like to pass along some info about my MD7 cooling water system. After I removed our Penta from the boat and got it home, I test ran the engine in my yard to make sure it was usable prior to spending any money and doing any rebuild work on the engine. I ran the engine without any exhaust hooked up to the engine manifold, connecting the cooling water outlet hose and letting it pump water on the ground. The volume of water that the engine was pumping was not very good. I assumed that the water pump was worn out. The problem was much different - The majority of the water pump discharge tube and also the thermostat housing bypass port were severely plugged with rust and dirt which was restricting water flow. I also found a 1/4" water port in the block completely plugged when I removed the water cooled exhaust manifold. Since I have a very limited history for my Ballad, I can't say how long this took to occur or if it was caused from the engine sitting unused for several years. The engine did have a good quality water strainer installed. I completely cleaned the water system and the water discharge volume is at least double or triple what it was before.
I think that anyone that thinks their Penta engine isn't discharging the proper amount of water out of the exhaust might want to check into this. I'm glad I found this before I reinstalled the engine and possibly damaged it. If you were to disconnect the water outlet hose and direct it into a bucket and briefly run the engine - a good measure of water discharge volume could be checked. If you are concerned about your water cooled exhaust for this test, you could hook up a water hose from the dock to supply water during the check.
Trent | |
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 | When I had the cylinder head skimmed and valves seats re-cut following a blown cylinder head gasket, the machine shop used a flushing agent to clear out the water galleries in the head. I renewed the thermostat as the old one was unrecognisable. The engine has seemed to run fine ever since with good power and uses no oil. There are 7,500 hrs on the clock which I think over reads. The engine is a 1977 MD7A with no strainer other than the one on the keel over the water inlet. I make sure that after antifouling the hole are not blocked by paint. Dick |
|
I installed a VP water strainer and this diminished water flow considerably.
Prior to this, the water entered the engine under full hydrostatic pressure from the keel i/let below the W/L.
The engine i/let is below the w/line, so there was no impediment to flow represented by the requirement to pump water up to the above w/l strainer.
I cleaned out the exhaust maniflod and block galleries as part of the engine renovation. Very nasty.
Realistically, the design has its limitations, represented by the onset of corrosion to principal parts.
Does anyone have experience of winterising?
I found the introduction of antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor into the set-up a huge problem. This obviously has implications for long term lay-up, where corrosion inhibitor is absent as a result.
From: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
To: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: Engine exhaust
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:37:48 -0700
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Engine exhaust
Reply
|
|
| From: trentmoraitis |
Thanks for the info about the engine breather.
I would also like to pass along some info about my MD7 cooling water system. After I removed our Penta from the boat and got it home, I test ran the engine in my yard to make sure it was usable prior to spending any money and doing any rebuild work on the engine. I ran the engine without any exhaust hooked up to the engine manifold, connecting the cooling water outlet hose and letting it pump water on the ground. The volume of water that the engine was pumping was not very good. I assumed that the water pump was worn out. The problem was much different - The majority of the water pump discharge tube and also the thermostat housing bypass port were severely plugged with rust and dirt which was restricting water flow. I also found a 1/4" water port in the block completely plugged when I removed the water cooled exhaust manifold. Since I have a very limited history for my Ballad, I can't say how long this took to occur or if it was caused from the engine sitting unused for several years. The engine did have a good quality water strainer installed. I completely cleaned the water system and the water discharge volume is at least double or triple what it was before.
I think that anyone that thinks their Penta engine isn't discharging the proper amount of water out of the exhaust might want to check into this. I'm glad I found this before I reinstalled the engine and possibly damaged it. If you were to disconnect the water outlet hose and direct it into a bucket and briefly run the engine - a good measure of water discharge volume could be checked. If you are concerned about your water cooled exhaust for this test, you could hook up a water hose from the dock to supply water during the check.
Trent | |
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Thanks: topical to that warning, I have wondered how the self-fabricated parts I have seen dealt with the fact that although the union for the water injector is at the top of the elbow, the VP casting has a parallel tube to the exhaust element which effectively introduces the water at the bottom, where the second bend begins. That's why mine has a larger diameter over all bore and a pipe for the water inside the iron exhaust tube. I had wondered if there was porting between the two tubes to introducea "spray" function to keep the exhaust unit cool. Anyone know?
From: johncotton@xtra.co.nz
To: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: Engine exhaust
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:52:29 -0700
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Engine exhaust
Reply
|
|
| From: jc0tton |
I would be careful mucking around with the exhaust configuration as there is potential for water between the water lock and the engine to slosh about under sail and enter the motor. Apparently the original Ballad configuration was less than optimal and you certainly would not want to make it any worse. Here is a very good article by the other John Cotton about this problem
| |
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|
Thanks: topical to that warning, I have wondered how the self-fabricated parts I have seen dealt with the fact that although the union for the water injector is at the top of the elbow, the VP casting has a parallel tube to the exhaust element which effectively introduces the water at the bottom, where the second bend begins. That's why mine has a larger diameter over all bore and a pipe for the water inside the iron exhaust tube. I had wondered if there was porting between the two tubes to introducea "spray" function to keep the exhaust unit cool. Anyone know?
From: johncotton@xtra.co.nz
To: albin-ballad@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: Engine exhaust
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:52:29 -0700
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Engine exhaust
Reply
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| From: jc0tton |
I would be careful mucking around with the exhaust configuration as there is potential for water between the water lock and the engine to slosh about under sail and enter the motor. Apparently the original Ballad configuration was less than optimal and you certainly would not want to make it any worse. Here is a very good article by the other John Cotton about this problem
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| Would it be relevant to put a bucket under the exhaust discharge, and collect the exhaust water in say 5 minutes, when engine is running at a specified rpm, to measure the voulme?? Jesper Milling |
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