Hi to all, On my Ballad Mallejan I use a 10kg Delta anchor with 10 meters 8mm chain and 35 meters 14mm rope. The anchor is permanently on the bow and the rest of the gear is in an anchorwell. I want to buy an electric windlass in combination with 40 meters chain. If I follow some brochures I need 8mm chain. This will result in 64 kg at the bow. The alternative is 6mm chain. The weigth will than reduce till about 30 kg. If I look in some catalogs I see different numbers for SWL ( safe work load). of 6mm chain. Some speak about 400kg , another speaks of 900kg. The catalog of Plastimo gives the same numbers for galvanized and stainless 6mm chain. Both values are 400kg. Is there someone who has experience with anchoring with just chain on a Ballad. Gerard  | Hi Gerard: I'm currently addressing some anchor+chain issues so I can pass on my thoughts. The vast majority of boats in Greece use all-chain rode due to the strong winds encountered in anchorages in the summer (35+ knots is not unusual). On Moments of Clarity I have a 15kg Bruce (or 10kg Delta) as a main anchor plus 55 metres of 8mm chain. All this is handled by a 1000-watt Lofrans Airon windlass. Admittedly, this a lot of weight: 15kg for the anchor + 80kg for the chain + appx 18kg for the windlass = 113kg. I've relocated the batteries from under the V-berth to a place under the chart table to compensate a little for this weight. Mind you, 50-55 metres of 8mm chain is about as much as the Ballad's anchor locker will take. Also, since the locker was never designed for serious cruising anchoring, it's not deep, so when you haul in the chain you may find that somebody has to be underneath to make sure the chain falls freely. This issue is quite serious and it's what I'm addressing at the moment. The prevailing thought is to move the windlass aft, right over the space where the batteries used to be and transform that space into a vast anchor locker. It's a lot of work and the anchor hawse pipe would cut through the middle of the V-berth. As for the size of the chain, this will also depend on the size of your windlass. To me 700-watt is fine, but below that it will be struggling when you need it most. I think there's indeed a difference in SWL for the same size of chain, usually chinese-origin chains have a lower SWL. I don't know what your cruising grounds are like, but I think 400kg is too low. As work on Moments of Clarity progresses, I'll be posting photos but this won't be for at least a couple of weeks. Nicholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
 | Thanks Nicholas for your extended answer. Normally I am sailing my Ballad in the southwestern part of Holland, which is an estuary mostly sheltered. On my vacations I have been to the east and southcoast of England and to Normandy and the Channel Islands. The last 15 years (I own my boat since 1984) we have been to the Baltic, most of it to Denmark, where you can find nice sheltered anchorplaces. I am thinking of a 600w windlass , The Quick Cristel with the option on a 6mm or 8mm head. The weight is 9.4 kg. I think you are right with 8mm chain , together with the Delta will this give a total weight of 85kg. For a very short moment I have thought on the possebillety to use the place of the batteries as you suggested. But that is to much work for me. On the other hand the cable to the startbatterie will be very short now, when I keep the batteries on their places.
With kind regards,
Gerard
"Mallejan" |
 | I am not sure I would sleep too well with 6mm chain. I use 10mm chain + rope +35lb Manson plow. The anchoring system on an Albin Ballad is less than perfect to say the least. |
 | Hey Guys... Just a though here...there are some incredibly strong/light kevlar ropes out there now...wonder if you guys have tried them? I was thinking about giving that a try. At least there would be no rust etc. to deal with. |
 | Hi, On my Ballad, I have moved the chain locker aft of the water tank, between the two batteries. I have a Lofrans Kobra windlass with a 1000w motor mounted at the aft end of the foredeck. It feeds chain to the locker through a length of plastic pipe that runs between the two berths. I use a 35lb CQR as my working anchor, with 60mtr of 8mm chain. This is as much as my chain locker will take, and I have to knock the pyramid of chain over to get it all to fit. This is easy to do through the forehatch, using a boathook. Previously, before I installed the chain locker and windlass, the chain lived in the original chain locker. With a full water tank, she felt bows heavy. Now, despite the extra weight of the windlass, I don't get that feeling. For me, the change was worth the effort. |
| Hi Tim: Could you please post a couple of photos of your arrangement? I'm currently considering doing the same and I'd like to see how you did it. I've no batteries there anymore, so there're acres of space. I hope that the chain will fall cleanly without creating a pyramid. Since our total anchor system weight is very similar (35lb Bruce + 55m of 8mm chain) I'm looking forward to the advantages you mentioned. Also, as a response to the possibility of using light ropes, that's a no-no for me. You don't get the catenary effect of chain which helps to absorb shocks, they're much more liable to chafe and they suffer from UV degradation. I also think good galvanised chain doesn't rust so readily. Mine is 8 years old and, basically, looks like new. Nicholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
| Hi Nicholas, Will post some pictures, but I'm afraid it will be a few days yet. I don't have any photos as yet, so will need to go on board to take some - probably this weekend (weather permitting - she's on a swinging mooring). Basically, I moved the two batteries to the outboard ends of the shelf they sit on - angled to lie parallel with the sides of the hull. I then cut away the centre portion of the shelf, and built a box wider at the aft end than the forward, and as tall as would fit under the existing berth surface. I put a fixed lid over the front half of the box, and fitted a 2" skin fitting through it. I fitted a second 2" skin fitting to the deck under the windlass, and joined the two with a length of reinforced clear plastic hose. The aft half of the box has a lift off lid. Could do with being a little deeper, but otherwise, it suits me. Agree with your comments about chain vs rope. I would also apply the same thinking to using 6mm rather than 8mm chain. |
| >>You don't get the catenary effect of chain which helps to absorb shocks, I think that this statement requires some elaboration. Yes the catenary effect of chain does absorb shocks, however once taut (as in a storm situation) there is no elongation or stretch (like rope) and quite severe loads can be transmitted to both the anchor and the boat. Yes there are some advantages with all chain rodes, however there are also advantages with rope/chain combinations that should not be ignored. |
| John, you're quite right regarding the lack of elasticity of chain. I forgot to mention that when I anchor I always tie one end of a length of nylon rope (usually 6-8 metres) to the chain with a rolling hitch, the other to one of the bow cleats, and then pull until there's a good curve on the chain. I do this to take the stress off the windlass and it's a pretty good shock absorber. In stroger winds you can tie two different lengths of rope on different parts of the chain. So far, this has worked well in up to 45 knots (in a relatively calm bay) which is the strongest continuous wind I've experienced at anchor. Last year, in a similar situation I laid two anchors at 45 degrees, the second with 15 metres of chain and 25 metres of rope and that worked well too. Once again, luckily, there were no waves, just wind. NIcholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
 | You guys make me feel like my waters here in Denmark is an indoor swimmingpool. |
| Jesper, I don't know what Danish cruising grounds are like, but having read enough about sailing in the UK and northern France, I'd rather deal with windy anchorages in the Med than with tides and North Sea icy blasts. Nicholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
 | >>You don't get the catenary effect of chain which helps to absorb shocks, I think that this statement requires some elaboration. Yes the catenary effect of chain does absorb shocks, however once taut (as in a storm situation) there is no elongation or stretch (like rope) and quite severe loads can be transmitted to both the anchor and the boat. Yes there are some advantages with all chain rodes, however there are also advantages with rope/chain combinations that should not be ignored. Quite agree with this, however the one very important thing to remember is that if you use rope it MUST be of a type which stretches, and does not float. Kevlar, although it will probably not float, will definitely not stretch, so is totally unsuitable as anchor rode, nylon is the most usual rope used, because it has great strength, good stretch, and does not float. You do have to choose the right diameter rope, because if you choose too thick a rope for the size and weight of your boat, you will not get the stretch you need, and obviously, if it's too thin you won't get the strength. There are many websites with this information available. With regard to the taught chain in a storm, you can reintroduce the catenary effect by using a chum, (not to be confused with shark bait!) which is good thing for all boats to have aboard. A chum is a weight which you slide down the chain on a rope, about half way, so that it holds the chain down, allowing it to lift in the gusts, thereby helping to absorb shocks. Works with rope/chain rodes as well. You can also use it in a busy or confined anchorage to reduce the amount of rode you put out. Tim |
 | Dear All, I read with interest the comments made about fitting all the anchor chain into the anchor locker. We have about 30 metres of 8mm chain which is a little rusty but seems to be sound. When we anchor it is a real nuisance getting the chain back in the locker as the pyramid builds up under the pipe, and prevents the last 10m or so from going in. This is worst when it is just the two of us (which is the norm), as I have to haul the anchor up by hand, leaving a load of chain on deck, and race below to knock over the pyramid. If it is a little rough, this leaves a load of rusty chain crashing about over the deck. I do not like to leave the forehatch open, for the safety of both the boat and my neck, so I was wondering if anyone had come up with a reasonable solution. I don't really want to split the v-berth with an anchor pipe. Kind regards, Cameron Cracklin Rosie #73 |
| Hi Cameron: First, I assume you have a windlass. I'm surprised that you have this problem with 30 metres of 8mm chain. When I had 35 metres everything was OK, but when I went up to 55 metres I encountered the problem you're describing. Before deciding to move the chain aft and split the V-berth with a pipe (photos of which I hope to post soon) I toyed with two other ideas: one was to buy a 1.5 inch plastic through-hull, cut the tailpiece and epoxy it under the hole on deck, where the chain goes through. I then added a short piece of hose angled backwards, which would direct the chain to a deeper part of the locker (photos enclosed). That didn't work too well but I think it's because I have a lot more chain than you do. The other idea--which I didn't implement--was to position an inspection hatch next to the windlass, which I could open and "break" the chain pyramid either by hand or with a short length of pipe. This saves you the time and effort from having to climb down the forehatch every time, but it means cutting another hole on deck. The decision to move windlass and chain aft came easily: once, I was trying to haul and re-anchor in 40 knots of wind, when the chain jammed solid on the gypsy, and I was left drifting with the anchor and some chain hanging vertically in the water--and some rather expensive boats nearby. Luckily my stern anchor was ready to go, digged in immediately and the boat stopped.  You can barely see the tail piece as it's covered with blue tape (windlass motor is removed). Here, I've attached a short piece of exhaust pipe which is strong & flexible and used a heavy duty hose clip and a stainless steel strip to angle it backwards. You can also use stainless steel tubing but it needs a different kind of reinforcement. -Nicholas Moments of Clarity #334 |
| Dear Nick, Many thanks for the reply and pictures of the angled pipe. We don't currently have a windlass, which may be part of the problem. I usually haul the anchor up and flake the chain on the starboard side deck as I go, and then feed the chain back into the locker when the anchor is safely stowed. It makes a bit of a mess and requires a hose down or bucket of water before the mixture of mud, weeds and rust sets solid. Perhaps the corrosion on the chain, bot the rust and the Zinc oxide, is creating extra friction and making it more likely to create a pyramid. A new chain may help it flow more easily. I shall investigate the possibility of directing the flow to the deepest part of the locker. Kind regards, Cameron |
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