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Blog EntryNov 13, '08 12:57 AM
by aballport for everyone
Hello:
Of the four or five Ballads that I have seen they all seem to have very flexible cabin soles or floor pans. There also seems to be a tendency for the sole to crack at hard spots where they attach to the hull or other support members as a result of the flexing. A lot of people use carpet or wood overlay to cover up the problem but I have had success recently in stiffening up the sole by squirting expanding foam into the crease between the under side of the sole and the hull. It is quick, cheap, and easy. The sole has much better support now with just a liitle bit of give and hopefully no tendency for future cracking. I have ground out the cracked areas and repaired them with fiberglass cloth and fairing compound.
 
I recall that when I was shopping for a Ballad the condition of the cabin sole was one of the first flaws that I noticed. This fix may help maintain the long life and appeal of the Ballad.
 
Tony Allport
Pleiades #191

jespermilling wrote on Nov 13, '08
I am not saying you have chosen a bad solution, but my experience with foam is that it should never be exposed to water.
 
Way back in the seventies, When I was a seascout, expanding foam was used in our 19 feet fixed keel dinghies, under the cockpitfloor, to ensure flotation, and to make the boats unsinkable. Years later we had to remove it all again, as it had started to get wet, in fact it accumulated water like a sponge. I believe it was foam of the poly urethane kind.
 
Expanding foam may have improved, but the same foam has been used between the tiles on my roof, and every craftsman I talk to about it, says its a bad thing to do, for the same reasons. 
 
I hope this is not too discouraging.
msn-patentnick1 wrote on Nov 13, '08
Hi Tony:
 
I agree on all of Jepser's points and I'd like to add one more: If you've ever taken the saloon settee bases off, you'd have noticed that on the outboard side of the fiberglass lips where the wooden sides are attached, there are drain holes.  These holes allow water that may come down the cabin sides (usually when you've sailed with the rail under and there're a few loose toe-rail bolts) to drain into the bilge. If these holes are blocked, over time, you'd have standing water which would probably go unoticed--something that may lead to osmosis from the inside. Perhaps I'm lucky but my floors don't flex--at least not nearly as much as you describe.
 
Nicholas
Moments of Clarity #334
msn-ballad775 wrote on Nov 13, '08
Hi Tony,
 
I have to agree with Jesper and Nicholas regarding expanding foam. I used it a few years ago as bouyancy inside the ends of a kayak. A year or so later I noticed the kayak seemed a little heavier after a week of white water fun, capsizing several times.
The foam that I'd put in had absorbed quite a lot of water, so I had to spend hours digging it out, not fun.
 
I, like Nicholas, appear to be lucky in that my floors don't flex either, and I have to say, I've never noticed  flexing floors in any of the half dozen or so Ballads I been aboard.
 
Nicholas makes a very good point about the drain holes, I should at least make sure they continue to work, if I were you.
 
Tim
msn-the vagabond dreamer wrote on Nov 13, '08
This message has been deleted by the author.
msn-aballport wrote on Nov 13, '08
Thanks for the feedback, I will keep and eye on the foam and let you know how it turns out. I only used a small bead of it around the perimiter of the floor pan so I don't think I am irreversibly committed to anything. I will check to make sure any weep holes continue to work. Still, the result has been a remarkable improvement both structurally and visually in the condition of my floor.
 
Tony Allport
Pleiades #191 
jespermilling wrote on Nov 13, '08
Hi Tony
 
As I said, I don't mean to say you did somethng wrong, and I too think the floor can feel a little soft. My floor was considerably improved when I made the new base for the table. This base is described elsewhere, but it seems the picture illustrating the base, cannot be shown right now. Unfortunately.
 
However, as long as the foam serves its purpose, its a good solution, and it can be very difficult and timeconsuming to solve this problem in any other way.
 
Jesper.
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