Hi, Folks-- I've decided that this is my year to unstep the mast, rewire the electrical, install a wind meter, and while I have it down, install new standing rigging. Since this is uncharted territory, I could really use some advice. Here are some of the issues I'm wrestling with: 1. How should I (or should I) renew the anodized aluminum mast? My rigger says that "no one" is reanodizing masts anymore (at least in my area) due to US environmental prohibitions. I have talked to some people who have had great success sanding and painting the mast, but am I opening up a can of worms here? 2. I am planning to replace the swage fittings with Hi-Mod fittings (marketed by Petersen Marine in the UK and Hayn Marine in the US). Does anyone have any experience with these fittings? Are they preferable enough to swage fittings to be worth the extra price? Of course, if I do the fittings myself (with guidance, of course), I estimate that I will also save about $640 in labor charges. 3. What is the mm size of the original Ballad rigging? My rigger is suggesting that I step up to the next imperial size (is it 1/4 inch?). Are there any hidden pitfalls in doing this? He was suggesting drilling out the chainplates to accomodate 1/2" pins. Should I do this? As all of us are, I'm trying to get the most for my money while upgrading and enhancing my boating experience. Dealing with standing rigging is new territory for me, and I really appreciate your help in advance. Thanks, Cathi Jones Lyric, Albin Ballad Hull #205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD  | Hi Cathi: I renewed the standing rigging when I bought "Moments of Clarity" five years ago. I chose swaged fittings which, if properly done (and that's a big "if") are reliable. Of course, if money allows, swage-less fittings are preferable (whether it's Sta-lok, Norseman or Hi-mod) since they don't abuse the wire and you don't need a hydraulic press to replace a wire in the event of failure. As far as I remember, the Ballad's rigging is 6mm throughout. When I asked my rigger about going up one size he mentioned that the Ballad, like many boats from that era, was over-designed and increasing the size wasn't worth it. Modern, mass-produced boats with the Ballad's LOA but 30% more sail area use the same diameter wires--sometimes a size smaller! This year, I plan to replace the original stainless steel rigging screws with Hasselfors chrome-bronze ones. As for the chain plates, I've placed extra large washers on the chain plate bolts attached to the bulkheads, as a few had started to make small indentations on the wood. They will also be replaced by solid 3mm stainless plates this year. I've done nothing to the mast. In the U.S., I've seen a lot of boats with painted masts and I think they look great. However, this should be left to a pro as aluminium is very tricky to paint (special etch primers should be used, etc.). The paint of choice is usually Awlgrip, well worth the extra money. Anodizing is a very messy business and I'd be surprised if you could find someone to do it. Also, since you'll be re-wiring, chose tinned wire; it's little more expensive but lasts forever. Nicholas "Moments of Clarity" hull#334 |
| Oops, When I mentioned "tinned wire", it was in reference to your electrical work. |
 | Kathy,
I have just gone through what you are thinking about. I removed the mast,
rewired it,added a wind direction and speed, steaming and foredeck light,
Vhf antenna, new running and standing rigging, and a roller furling.
For the end fittings I used swages at the top to reduce cost and norseman at
the bottom. I asked my rigger to do the job at a reasonable cost with safety
in mind and he is the who suggested the swages for the top where they do not
see the standing salt water. I did not have to drill out any fittings to
accommodate the new turnbuckles, but they were tight on some of the deck
fittings. I think it was one shroud on each side that was tight. This
could have been because the boat was sitting out of the water for the winter
so it will relax and change its shape somewhat. As for rigging size, i need
to check but i think i used the US equalivent of 10mm which was the original
as far as I know. This seems to be more than adequate and we even made the
split section of the backstay one or two sizes smaller.
The entire rigging setup, turnbuckles, wire, norseman fittings installed,
etc only cost me about $1200. I don't see how you are going to save $640
but maybe I am missing something or overpaid.....
As for painting the mast...i would not go down that path but mine was in
reasonably good shape so i didn't even consider the issue. A good coat od
wax is about all I really needed.
Any other questions please let me know...
Rich
SV Prelude 2
Hull 1269
Swansea MA
>From: "VCJones"
>Reply-To: "Albin-Ballad"
>To: "Albin-Ballad"
>Subject: New Standing Rigging
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:05:20 -0800
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> New Standing Rigging
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> Recommend
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> Message 1 in Discussion
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> From:
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>> Hi, Folks-- I've decided that this is my year to unstep the
>>mast, rewire the electrical, install a wind meter, and while I have it
>>down, install new standing rigging. Since this is uncharted territory, I
>>could really use some advice. Here are some of the issues I'm wrestling
>>with: 1. How should I (or should I) renew the anodized aluminum mast? My
>>rigger says that "no one" is reanodizing masts anymore (at least in my
>>area) due to US environmental prohibitions. I have talked to some people
>>who have had great success sanding and painting the mast, but am I opening
>>up a can of worms here? 2. I am planning to replace the swage fittings
>>with Hi-Mod fittings (marketed by Petersen Marine in the UK and Hayn
>>Marine in the US). Does anyone have any experience with these fittings?
>>Are they preferable enough to swage fittings to be worth the extra price?
>>Of course, if I do the fittings myself (with guidance, of course), I
>>estimate that I will also save about $640 in labor charges. 3. What is
>>the mm size of the original Ballad rigging? My rigger is suggesting that
>>I step up to the next imperial size (is it 1/4 inch?). Are there any
>>hidden pitfalls in doing this? He was suggesting drilling out the
>>chainplates to accomodate 1/2" pins. Should I do this? As all of us
>>are, I'm trying to get the most for my money while upgrading and enhancing
>>my boating experience. Dealing with standing rigging is new territory for
>>me, and I really appreciate your help in advance. Thanks, Cathi Jones
>>Lyric, Albin Ballad Hull #205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD
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|
 | Hi Cathy, Just a quick mention that Nicholas is correct with the size of wire for rigging. I have a copy of the Albin Ballad Handbook, and it states; "Standing Rigging. 6mm 19 stainless Wire." Later on in the manual there is a section; "Ballad Single Type Rule" Where it states that; "All shrouds and stays should either be at least 1 x 19 core 6mm wire or 5mm cold-drawn wire." 6mm is a fraction smaller than 1/4 inch, so 1/4 inch would be the right size in the US. 10mm is a fraction larger than 3/8 inch, I would think that this would be unnecessarily large, and would add quite a bit of weight, as well as costing a lot more. I don't as yet know the Ballad well enough to comment as to the need to drill out the chain plates, although I tend to think that the original has stood the test of time. With regard to the Hi-Mod fittings, I was in Key West in January for the Acura Key West 2006, (not in a Ballad., though, I was crew on a J/133) and these fittings came up in conversation one evening. I was talking to a rigger about something and someone else came up to ask his opinion on the Hi- Mods. The rigger was full of praise for them. Only hearsay, though, not my own personal experience. Tim "Gancia Girl" N. Wales UK |
 | You have all been such a great help on the rigging question. I am thankful that I can benefit from others who have completed these upgrades before me. Thank you also, as always, Jesper, for creating and maintaining this site! Cathi Jones Lyric, Albin Ballad Hull #205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD |
 | "Thank you also, as always, Jesper, for creating and maintaining this site!" Well you are most welcome, and it only pleases me to see how you make use of it. Maintaining Ballad Exchange is really easy, since I do close to nothing, even though I ought to get some of the little flags fixed in the welcoming messages. I have a question though, which is the reason I post this: Cathi: How have you determined the need for a new rigging? Have your rigging shown signs of wear? Which? Has anything broken? The only sign of wear, I know of in a wire, is when it starts having little threads of wire poking out of the wire, that you have to breaks off with a cloth, that you rub up and down the wire, untill the little devil disappears. I have none of that so far. Our rigging is the original from 1976, as far as we know. It has no signs of wear, that I have noticed (ignorant as I may be), except the mast of course is not as pretty as a new one, any more. And the aluminium moving parts on the boom in either ends are clearly worn. Best regards, Jesper Milling. |
 | Hi
I just thought I would add my view to your questions.
1. Corrosion to the aluminium parts is only a problem if they have contact to steel parts. The contact between the marerials can be elliminated by using rubber or sikaflex. On the surface of the aluminium, aluminiumoxide will be protecting, when in contact to air. There is no need for paining the mast but check all stainless steel parts for being proper isolated from the aluminium. You can buy many products to keep your mast kleen and shiny.....If you want.
2. No experience.
3. As a general rule I would always follow the Ballad One Design Association (BODA) rules when doing work on the boat. It will make it easier to sell the boat and will keep the Ballad-class homogen.
As mentioned earlier the dimensions for the rigging is 6 mm 19 treaded wire.
At the page www.ballad.dk go to "Tegninger og dim." (drawings and dimensions) Here you will find some good information. If you need something to be translated just ask in here.
I don쨈t think it would be wise to upgrade anything in size unless you have had problems. It would increase weight in a very bad place and cost you money. The Ballad is well tested and has sailed around the world.
Good luck!
Bo Albrechtslund
Love, B-1090, Denmark
|
 | I was wondering the same thing as Jesper regarding the need for replacing rigging. I'm a fan of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy. |
| As I understand it, the need for replacing rigging, even though it looks OK, is because stainless steel can corrode without visible evidence of the corrosion showing. I believe it's called chloride type corrosion, which happens if the stainless steel wire sits in salt water. This can happen in swaged fittings, as water can get into the bottom fitting and sit there for long periods. If the wire of the shroud starts to corrode in the fitting, there may be no visible signs to tell you that there is a problem, until the wire gives way. Also any thing which prevents air getting to the stainless steel, such as varnish, paint, dirt, etc., can cause the wire to corrode. In the UK, most Marine Surveyors now recommend replacing all standing rigging every ten years, and more and more Brittish insurance companies are insisting that this is done. Whether or not standing rigging needs replacing after only ten years is a much debated subject, but standing rigging giving way without warning is the most common cause of dismastings. Jesper, I would think that if your standing rigging has not been renewed since 1976 it would be prudent to do so fairly soon. Tim |
| I thought I would have a quick look to see what I could find on the web about rigging problems, and found this. Tim |
 | My Ballad was built in 1978 and still had the original standing rigging when I bought the boat in 2000. I could not see anything wrong with the rigging and it put up with a windward sail in strong winds from the Netherlands to Cornwall, but I did replace it when I got to the UK. I also changed the running rigging so that the halyards were of non-stretchable rope and no longer of wire. I brought the topping lift, kicker line, main halyard, and first two reefs of slab reefing lines back to the cockpit. I put a mast ring on the deck at the base of the mast, anchored to the mast with stainless steel adjustable bolts, to take blocks for the main halyard, reefing lines, kicker and topping lift lines back to cockpit. I find that I can reef the main without leaving the cockpit and the mainsail sets very well with the slab system, The third reef which I have never used, not even needed in a Force 7-8 going to windward, does not come back to the cockpit.
The genoa is self furling and that halyard cleated on the mast. I find however that the boat goes best to windward in strong winds if I take the big self furling Genoa off and replace it with the number 3 Genoa, which sets very well and keeps the power low down with less healing effect.
David
|
| correction to my last post - replace 'healing' with 'heeling' !!! Must have mixed up the job with my off-duty! |
| I fully agree with Tim. Even in Greece, where rigging checks aren't needed for insurance policy renewals, most people feel that standing rigging should be changed every 10-12 years, 6 years for boats that are raced hard. The problem is that wires fail unexpectedly and finding no broken strands doesn't guarantee that the rigging is sound. Replacing a mast is infinitely more expensive and that doesn't even take into consideration damage to people or boat should the unthinkable happen. I know that changing the standing rigging was the very first thing I did when I bought my boat. Regarding larger diameter wires, it should be noted that in rig design working loads are calculated so that all pieces have similar structural properties. If, instead of 6mm wires you use 10mm, the wire may never break but something else will. It's that "weak link in the chain" thing. If a stouter rig is called for, it is probably preferable to install an inner forestay and running checkstays. Many riggers support this. Nicholas "Moments of Clarity" hull #334 |
 | I just took a quick look at my swages and found a crack on the lower end of the port upper shroud...Yikes! My boat was dismasted about fourteen years ago, before I owned it, so all of the rigging is about that old. I thought it was a plus when I bought it that the rigging was relatively new. I will definitely be replacing the upper shrouds on both sides. This has been a very timely thread. Kind regards, Tony Allport Pleiades, #191 |
| Hello, all--just an update on the standing rigging project to fill you in on a couple of things. The mast is now un-stepped. It was really exciting seeing the rig come down for the first time I have owned the boat. The first cursory inspection of the standing rigging seems to indicate that it is in really good shape, and that although the turnbuckles are original, the standing rigging may already have been replaced (possibly in 1994 when the mainsail was replaced and other unspecified rigging work was done). Therefore, what I'm thinking about is replacing the forestay, backstay, and main shrouds this year (all the uppers), as well as all the turnbuckles. I'll check the swages on the lower shrouds for cracks, and if they are as good as they look, I'll replace them myself later as I have the funds to do it. I'm going to cost things out this week. Right now, it looks as if the cost of labor for having swage fittings applied (my rigger is about $80 per hour and he says the work will take about 8 hours) offsets the increased cost of the mechanical fittings--meaning that they will cost about the same. Thanks for all your help on this project. Any further recommendations are appreciated! Cathi Jones Lyric, Hull # 205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD |
| One more update: Just checked, and my chain plates do not accept 1/2 inch clevis pins. I'm going to try 7/16. If that pin doesn't fit, I will probably get Norseman mechanical fittings instead of the Hi-Mod, because Norseman has an eye that fits 1/4 inch wire and 3/8 pins--Hi-Mod does not. Cathi Jones Lyric, Hull No. 205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD |
 | I have replaced the turnbucles with bronse instead of the original stainless steel turnbucles.
Bronse turnbucles are same strength, and may be used without lubrication.
My experience is that stainless steel turnbucles tend to get problems with threads if used without lubrication, and the lubrication tends to drip and make a mess on deck. |
| Continued Rigging Issues-- When unstepping the mast of my boat (hull no# 205, so one of the earlier Ballads), I discovered that there is NO conduit for electrical wire inside the mast. I'm a little concerned about introducing new holes into the mast, and also if the additional weight of the conduit would be a factor. Rather than riveting a new conduit in, I've thought of either using a light, flexible (non-riveted) conduit , or just using cable ties every 18 inches to tie the wires together (as we did when rewiring the rest of the boat). Any opinions? Someone mentioned a "This Old Boat" article on this problem. Can you tell me which issue it was in? Thanks, Cathi Jones Lyric, Albin Ballad Hull #205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD |
| I am not sure what issue, but they suggested using long cable ties so the
tail of the tie will act as a holder in the mast. You leave them uncut and
bend them to get them in the base so they spring back against the inside.
Given the size of the mast i would use a tie 12in or more if i could.
I just rewired mine and it had a conduit, but i have used this trick in
other situations and it does work well.
Good luck.
Rich
S/V Prelude II
>From: "VCJones"
>Reply-To: "Albin-Ballad"
>To: "Albin-Ballad"
>Subject: Re: New Standing Rigging
>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:49:26 -0700
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> New Standing Rigging
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> From:
> VCJones
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> Continued Rigging Issues-- When unstepping the mast of my
>boat (hull no# 205, so one of the earlier Ballads), I discovered that there
>is NO conduit for electrical wire inside the mast. I'm a little concerned
>about introducing new holes into the mast, and also if the additional
>weight of the conduit would be a factor. Rather than riveting a new
>conduit in, I've thought of either using a light, flexible (non-riveted)
>conduit , or just using cable ties every 18 inches to tie the wires
>together (as we did when rewiring the rest of the boat). Any opinions?
>Someone mentioned a "This Old Boat" article on this problem. Can you tell
>me which issue it was in? Thanks, Cathi Jones Lyric, Albin Ballad Hull
>#205 Anchorage Marina, Baltimore, MD
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| My mast has an internal track on either side of the mainsail luff groove. The wiring is bundled and tied to little cars that ride in the track just like sail slides. You might check to see if your mast is so fitted. My mast is not original so it may not be standard for Ballad masts but if you don't know to look for it you might not notice it. Also Don Casey's book This Old Boat shows how to pop rivet a PVC conduit to the inside of the mast. I wouldn't worry about the weight as it is slight and the Ballad's stability is great. Good Luck, Tony Allport Pleiades #191 |
| I have just had my mast pulled out and are doing a bit of preventive maintenance including a good look at my rigging. I have no idea of how old my standing rigging is it is at least 10 years old, it could easily be original i.e. 30+years, but it looks fine. A while ago a lifeline got caught up in a hall-out and it broke and I noticed that it was black in the middle, although there was significant rust on the outside of the wire. The advice I have has from a multitude of experts is that it needs to be replaced as stainless steel can just break with no exterior signs of rust or fatigue. One of these experts told me that he has replaced his own rigging but when I quizzed him he admitted that he had sliced through his old rigging one it was removed it was perfect inside. I then spoke to a local wire supplier which was perhaps more industrial that boat orientated and he came up with a good idea. Instead of just replacing all of the standing rigging we would do a destructive test on one of the stays too see how easy it was to break, and that stay would obviously have to be replaced. The idea is that if that one was the same age and typical of all of the others and it was OK then we had proven that the existing rig was probably O.K. I have chosen the forestay to test as that is likely to be the one that would be most suspect with hanks running up and down it, and getting bashed with the spinnaker pole etc. What ever happens I will be replacing the stay that I would least like to break considering the direction the mast would fall. Any comments or advice would be gratefully received I will let you know how I get on. |
| I would probably have chosen both the upper side stays. If one the upper sidestays breaks (most likely in very bad weather) the mast may brake. That would not happen as likely with any of the other stays. Jesper. |
| Hi John: Replacing all the standing rigging was the first thing I did when I bought my Ballad six years ago. The main problem is that stainless steel rigging does fail unexpectedly. In many rigging mishaps, it fails at the swage, especially the lower part where water has a chance to collect. If one swage hasn't been done properly, it may fail regardless of the health of the wire. That's why swage-less fitings like Hi-Mod and Stalok are preferable if they can be afforded. If you decide to have one of your wires tested, I agree with Jesper that it should probably be the cap shrouds. I understand that they suffer more than the forestay. Have you got a quote for replacing your standing rigging? I wonder how much they ask for the job. -Nicholas |
| Thanks for your suggestions The reason I chose the forestay was that of all of the stays it was the only one that had slight rust at the top swage and I thought I could see slight wear on the wire itself. I also quizzed them about the swages. He agreed that the swages was the place that the wire normally broke, however that would happen when the wire was getting tired which mine is not. He also said that when they were about go at the swages there were normally visual signs. The cost of replacing all of the standing rigging is considerable but not huge. But I am loath to fix something that aint broke. After visual inspection the wire guys said they were happy with the rigging and they said that a destructive test was not neccessary. Never the less I went throught with the test. He did not think that the rigging was original i.e not 30 years old, he thought maybe 10-12 years. The forestay was rated with a breaking strain of 3.03 Tons when new, it broke at 3.36 tons. If I were to be about to go offshore, perhaps I would replace all of the rigigng but for my use (Wednesday night racing, the occasional long race and semi-sheltered coastal cruising) and based on the advice I have recieved I think tht it would be over the top for me to replace my rigging at this time. Based on the test result you could just about suspend the entire boat from one stay. |
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