One day I want to convert my Ballad to be steered by a wheel. I have allready found some information on tiller-to-wheel conversion on the internet, but I would also like to hear from anyone who have actually made this conversion on a Ballad. Here follows a list of interesting links:  | We purchased our boat, Red Jacket X in Sept of 2000. It had been converted to wheel steering. It is an Edson conversion. We have the drawings & diagrams, part #, ect. It works well and we have had no problems with it. We have an AutoHelm ST4000 powering the wheel, and have it tied into our chartplotter/gps. |
 | Sounds very interesting. I must say. Do you have a picture of it, showing us the appearance? How large is the wheel? I'm figuring 80cm diameter would be appropriate. Could you post the drawings, diagrams, part list etc. in this discussion? I know it might be major job to scan it all in and post it, but it would be very interesting to me, and maybe to others too. Maybe your setup is just what I am looking for, and then I wouldn't have to go through the design fase. Maybe Edson is not as expensive as Jefa. Has the floor of your cockpit been reinforced (strengthened)? |
 | I looked into adding wheel steering to my Ballad last year. I even went as fas as purchasing a used wheel and pedestal with compass. Edson was very helpful with diagrams etc. Using the used equipment the cost would be minimal, the only headache appears to be removing the rudder. Has anyone done this, i am a little hesitant. |
 | This message has been deleted by the author. |
| I thought that removing the till would allow for a little more usable room
in the cockpit. Do you not find it a bit cramped....perhaps it is my
size..6'3" (?meters)..But i rethought it and considering that i often sail
alone i think the tiller makes more sense for tacking etc..For now the wheel
and pedestal make a nice decoration for my study...
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| I have three new nylon bushings for my rudder, and will have to take the rudder out to replace them. I do so at the end of may, when I am on the slip for cleaning and painting the buttom. So far I understand the heel of the rudder post should be removed by unscreewing the stainless steel heel "thing". (lack of word sorry) |
| The cockpit is not cramped, the crew however, inevitably gets in the way of the tiller. Imagine having the helmsman and the steering device all aft of the lockers. That would leave the cockpit free for two guests in each corner AND two persons handling the sheets. Then it would feel cramped. |
| I don't know...with a wheel you can have people seated all about and still
steer. Then you could add self tailing winces and have a easy time of it.
My crew has suggested the winch change as a way to reduce the required
number for the racing. The combination of both has me thinking..we will see
what the budget can do this year...
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 | I thought about converting to a wheel, but since I eventually want to take the boat offshore, I think I will eventually put on a Monitor windvane. Therefore, I think it makes more sense to keep the tiller. I did see the Etap solution at the Annapolis (MD) boat show last October, but I think it is probably only on Etaps right now. It might be interesting to investigate . . . |
| I will take pictures of the wheel etc & post ASAP. Sorry for the delay. |
| I spoke to a very helpfull gentleman at Jefa, and he recommended a pushrod solution. It is service free. It gives a better feel. It doesn't put a permanent pull on the rudder stem and the rudder bushings, like a wired system, the steering column has a good reinforcement plate below deck, and he claims it can be installed in 4 hours. It is also more expensive, and one would still have to replace the rubber hose around the stem with another kind of packing. |
 | Gentlemen regarding the tiller vs wheel discussion I would like to tell about what I did in my Ballad 1203. I'm about to finish a complete overhaul of my boat includind replacing the old MD6 with a 2020 Penta Volvo. One of the main jobs was to remove the wheel and to rebuild the tiller mechanism wich is very simple. The wheel mechanism was too complex in my opinion due to all those pulleys and the wire cable assy. On the other hand the wheel reduces a lot the cockpit usefull space. I will sail my boat in the Atlantic (portuguese coast) so I want to keep my boat as simple and reliable as possible. MDS |
 | Absolutely the tiller is like a friend if you single hand, simple, easy, no frills and takes a knee or hip to put it in its place. AMEN
|
|
I find your
arguments very interesting since you have actually tried both having a wheel,
and having a tiller.
It's true that the
wire system of a wheel solution is vulnerable, and complex, and that is not
good. Lst time I spoke to Jefa, one of the worlds best sterring system
manufacturers, they recommended a pushrod solution, which is simpler to install,
and much much simpler to maintain, infact he claimed it to be maintenance free.
A pushrod solution is also much more expensive, and gives a better feeling with
the rudder, than the wire solution.
But that is only
technical. I find your arguments on usefull space much more interesting. Don't
you find that with a tiller the helmsman and the persons controlling the genoa
sheets are competing about the space in the cockpit, and that guests seated
under the sprayhood tend to be competing about the same space too, so that
infact when housband and wife are sailing with a couple of guests they tend to
be using only the foremost half of the cockpit, stepping on each other and
leaving the aft half of the cockpit unused?
I imagine that with
a tiller, the wife could be seated on a bench stretching from cokpit coaming top
to cockpit coaming top in the aftmost part of the cockpit steering with the
wheel in front of her. I could be hauling the sheets, and the guest could be
enjoying the protection of the sprayhood.
Please give this a
thought, because I think some of you guys are sailing a lot on your own, I do
too, but I wouldn't want it to be because my guests feel like
thay are in the way og the crew.
Venlig Hilsen / Kind regards
Jesper Milling, Fiskerv챈nget 12, DK5600 Faaborg,
+45 6261 8713
|
 | Jesper - have noted with interest your debates on converting to wheel steering. I have previously owned a Ballad and may be interested in buying another. However, I would like wheel steering and would appreciate if you could provide details on a suitable conversion. I also wondered if you considered hydraulic steering which would be an easy installation but would reduce sensitivity somewhat - however as I am not a commited racer this would not worry me too much. Your assistance and advice would be much appreciated. |
|
I have, at least for
the moment, left the idea of converting to wheel steering, in favor of
installing a fake ruddershaft aft of the real ruddershaft, exiting on top of the
cockpit coaming in the centerline of course. This fake ruddershaft should rotate
in a bearing at the bottom of the hull, and one at the top of the coaming. (Gee
I hope my english is good enough for this description). The fake (or extra)
ruddershaft should have a tiller, and a rod connection to he real ruddershaft.
Moving the tiller back to the coaming should solve mot of the problems with the
tiller as it is today, and avoid all of the problems of a
wheel.
However. I did
discuss the wheel thing with Jeva. Please find internet link in previous
posting. Jeva warmly recommended a rod connection between the wheel and the
rudder shaft. It gives by far the best feeling. It is very easy to install (like
1 (one) hours work. But it is also expensive.
Anybody considered a
tiller to wheel conversion should visit Jeva website, and go through the
documentation which is in english. The Jeva people are very nice to talk to, and
very helpfull. And I have no doubt that their rod connected system is the
best.
Venlig Hilsen / Kind regards
Jesper Milling, Fiskerv챈nget 12, DK5600 Faaborg,
+45 6261 8713
|
 | Hi, I have a Comfort 30 (sorry, I joined this site cos all the Comfort 30 sites I've found are in Swedish or Norwegian!) with wheel steering. It is a Simpson-Lawrence (remember them?) re-badged Edson wire system and it works very well - its light with good feel and has been no trouble at all. It came with the boat when bought and the previous owner had made a bit of a b***ocks of installing it - they had removed a section of the rudder tube to install the quadrant without any thought to stopping the water sloshing up-and-over the now reduced tube (I reckon to improve that situation with a lip seal on the rudder shaft up against the underside of the hull). In addition, they had simply removed the tiller and rudder-head which caused major problems as the rudder-head is designed to support the weight of the rudder as well as taking the tiller. The fitting at the bottom of the skeg will not take the weight of the rudder - how do I know? - mine came adrift under the weight. The rudder-head has to be replaced with a thimble-shaped lump of brass/bronze with a machined face to bear against the brass ring glassed into the top of the rudder tube. It helps to have a father who is an engineer! |
|
Hi
Comfortman
First of all, please
feel welcome here at Ballad Exchange. No need to feel sorry. If and when
differences occur, it only be interesting, and hopefully not confusing.
Have you ever felt
like the wheel was taking up too much space?
Venlig Hilsen / Kind regards
Jesper Milling, Fiskerv챈nget 12, DK5600 Faaborg,
+45 6261 8713
|
| Jesper, I do not find that the wheel is in the way at all - alright it splits the cockpit into two, but I usually sit on the side seats either just behind or just in front of the wheel (depending on conditions and where I can get the best view of the foresail luff). The steering is finger-light so its no problem. Ian |
|
Thanks! Good to
know.
Venlig Hilsen / Kind regards
Jesper Milling, Fiskerv챈nget 12, DK5600 Faaborg,
+45 6261 8713
|
| I suppose the point that I was trying to make is that while removing the tiller may seem attractive it has to be thought through because of the support role the rudder-head performs. Ian |
 | There are racing Ballads that have changed back to tiller steering as well. Janie |
 | Everyone, I sailed for 3 seasons with a tiller before converting my ballad #1346 to wheel steering 2 years ago using the Edson System. I found the system and the install to be very straight forward and checking other boats that came with a wheel from the factory, the system that fits the ballad was identical. I do miss my tiller becuase I enjoyed that flavor of sailing very much but I am glad I made the conversion. Opened up the cockpit, much less moving the family around when tacking (this was important as you can imagine) and comfortable to steer from behind, or either side. The tiller was better for single handing but autohelm resolved that. I ve sailed her about 700 miles since the conversion and the systems seems fine. Everything is accessable and easy to check. I'll post some pics if anyone is interested. Safe sailing Gary Lyon Patriot #1346 Captain's Cove, Bridgeport, CT |
| Hi Gary With the family and tacking conflict you have hit the nail right on. It just does not work. Personally I have tried taking care of the genoa sheets while my wife was steering, and I had to jump over the tiller behind her back, and almost jumped into the water, due to the heeling and the movements. Pictures of your wheel system would be very interesting, even though personally I have decided on moving the tiller back to the cockpit coaming, and making it foldable. Please find my posting on the idea somewhere else in the Steering forum. Best regards Jesper Milling |
| Hi Gary I forgot to ask you: Which Edson system did you choose? Did you fill out the form they have, or did you take the solution designed for a similar boat, and if so which one? Does Edson have the data for a Ballad package, I meen since they made you a package. What did it cost?? Their system seems to work with a simple wire connection directly from the post to the rudder shaft, no wheels in between. Looks very simple and effective. Best regards Jesper M. |
| Hey Jesper, Edson did have a design for the ballad. I got the info from them but I ordered through pyacht.com. ( price ). There is a drive wheel that you drill and mount to the rudder shaft. Drilling that stainless rudder shaft was probably the hardest part. Anyone considering this make sure you've got a handfull of sharp drills. Had to remove the wood that formed the aft locker to install the14 " drive wheel but was able to reinstall locker with minor clearance modifications. Besides that its a matter of measuring out and mounting the pedistal. I put it aft in the cockpit allowing just enough room to stand behind. I used a 30" wheel which is about the biggest that will fit. Initially got a 26" but it seemed to low when steering while standing. And i aint tall..ha! The whole system seems very sturdy. The cable is actually a heavy chain to cable. The sprocket for the chain at the top of the pedistal. Cost 2450.00. Add an auto pilot 800.00. I'll check for model #s and take pics soon to post. By the way Jesper I checked out the pics you posted on the Trawler Lamp. Very nice. Im considering. You did say it throws some heat? Looking at the ballad world map I counted only 25 ballads in the USA. All spread out. I see a coulpa guys in RI and Mass area and Cathi (Lyris) and Joe down in Chesapeake Bay. Maybe our paths will cross some time. I'll bring the wine! Well the USA Thanksgiving is upon us. So Happy Thanksgiving to All! Gary |
 | Hello Gary, It would be nice to have some photos with the details. CS |
 | No 57 (variety) based at Saltash in Plymouth has had wheel steering for as long as I can remember. Balladdick (I think) (owner of Balu) may know the boat. In my mind a push rod system has got to be the favorite for reliability. |
| Jesper, I have some pics of the wheel install. I tried to attach to this reply but exceeded the space allowed so I am going to try to post to the picture area. I'll let you know when Ive succeeded. I dont know how helfull they will be but they will at least give you an idea of the way it fits. I would be happy to answer any questions I can about the install. Overall I am happy with the results. Space saving and has a nice feel. I'll try to attch one pic here. More in the pic section. Gary Attachment: boat wheel 001.jpg |
| Jesper, Photos are in under "Patriot" Gary |
| |
